It's the speculators

Alex's picture

The oil crisis has nothing to do with supply and demand, obviously:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2008/db2008079_86...

So go ahead, write your congress person (like they care) and tell them to make sure those damn speculators stop trading. They can't possibly set up a marketplace (and all the jobs that go with it) anywhere else in the world because math and computers only exist in New York (I actually wrote this using smoke signals).

guerciotti's picture

Do speculators have private

Do speculators have private property rights just like everyone else? hmm.

Alex's picture

I calls it

SOX 2: Finishing the Damage

guerciotti's picture

London is kicking NYC's ass

London is kicking NYC's ass all thanks to DC. How much are you guys spending on the lobbying effort? lol.

Politicians need a Hippocratic Oath!!!

Teh Black Hole's picture

http://fastermustache.org/nod

http://fastermustache.org/node/5272

Deja Vu.

I read somewhere about limiting speculation (ie. trading) of oil futures to only individuals who can take actual physical deliver... no more strict investors.

The margin rules for oil

The margin rules for oil trading only requires a cash investment of 6% of the value of the contract. Contrast that against stock market margins which require 50% cash investment. That makes oil trading very appealing to investors (and also risky).

Alex's picture

fantastic idea

That would ensure that people would not be able to hedge their risk and would ensure that:

1. volatility would get even higher, making the recent price spikes look like mole hills; and
2. the risk would be reflected as a premium in the refined products so as to allow refiners a cushion to protect them against wild fluctuations.

What it would definitely not do is cause all trading to migrate abroad...

Teh Black Hole's picture

I'm not really following our

I'm not really following our argument about limiting futures trading will lead to more violent fluctuations....

The stuff on this page makes sense to me.

Maybe I'm missing something?

Alex's picture

The basic explanation is

that the bigger the market on a security (and futures are securities) the less violent the price fluctuations because the number of players in it dilute any big movements that any one player's panic or greed might be able to effect (statistics 101, right? The effect of an outlier in a small sample size, yadda yaddda). Here is a simplistic example:

Only 5 people trade a given, you, me, and 3 others. I have a widgets I want to sell and offer it at 10 bucks because I bought it at 9 and want to make a profit. You would buy it if it was 5, and the other 3 would buy it if it was 4, 6, and 7.

Suppose also my transaction was the last one, so the last known price for the widget is known to have been 9.

No one takes it at 10, so I gradually lower my price until I hit 7 and that guy buys it. It is a small market, so I have no option other than either hold it or bite the bullet and lose my 2 bucks.

Now, I just lost more than 20% of my investment, so next time I buy or sell widgets, I'll be nervous. The other 4 will probably have learned of my loss, so they'll be wary as well. If I bought my widget on credit, banks will be nervous too because now I have less money to repay them so I am riskier. All this risk gets priced into the next transaction.

In a bigger market, there is a higher possibility that there would be intermediate price points between 7 and 10, so the fluctuation might not be as violent. With more buyers and sellers, the risk gets diluted.

Notice also, that if I bought the widget in a delivery-only market, I will eventually need to buy another because I use them. Why did I sell, then? Maybe I needed the cash to do something else that was more urgent than my future use of the widget. If I could sell the right to buy the widget in the future (i.e. an option) to guercotti, who has piles of cash but does not need widgets (he is a speculator) I might have been able to come into an agreement whereby sell it at 8.50 and cut my losses.

This is, of course, extremely simplistic because these things are sold in much more complex ways, but it is the basic idea behind the beast.

.

the perspective is definitely appreciated. i've got a real job now so learning about money is something i really need to start doing.

Alex's picture

No no

you are doing it wrong. You should continue to make bad long-term choices, panic when it all goes belly up, blame someone else and then write your congressperson to do something about it.

Teh Black Hole's picture

OK, in your hypothetical

OK, in your hypothetical market... do speculators buy and sell more widgets than actual producers and users?

Also, the current price of oil is strangely similar to the dot.com era dot.com stocks...

Alex's picture

Nope

neither do speculators in the futures markets. Here is what they sell.

You are a refiner, and you know you need to buy 1MM barrels of oil in November. Right now the price is 147, but you think it will raise to something between 160 to 180. You can pay 160, but if it goes to 170, you are screwed.

Someone - a speculator - offers to sell it to you at 165 because they think that it may be a bit lower, so you buy a contract (for about 10k) that essentially says you have the right to buy oil at that price. Our speculator probably bought the right to buy the oil at 163 from another specularot and if they are right they have 2MM profits, minus expenses).

If oil settles at 164, you lost your 10k. If it settles at 175, you are happy because you can buy at 165 and because you avoided financial disaster (see "screwed" above).

Lets say it does settle at 175. Is the speculator on the hook for a 10MM loss? Chances are that he is not because he probably entered into another contract with another speculator where he had the right to buy the oil at 166 (they can live with a 1MM loss).

Now, we have 4 contracts (the one resulting in delivery and 3 different hedges) for the 1MM barrels. You avoided financial disaster, someone made some money, someone lost some money. It looks like those contracts whipped prices into a frenzy but they actually saved your ass (I think continental or jet blue actually used a hedge like that very successfully in the first quarter).

The price of oil for November delivery (at the delivery time) did not rise or fall on account of the contracts, but on account of the supply and demand conditions at that time. The price probably did fluctuate a good deal in between now and then (yes, I am talking about the future in the past) because people are trying to guess what factors will affect that price (say, bombing yet another country, winter temperatures, GM no longer making hummers, voodoo). You can't be talking about invading yet another oil producing country and not create anxiety in the markets.

Note that I am not saying that the up swings are not volatile in a dot com way. What I am saying is that they would be MORE volatile and speculation helps people hedge their bets.

Teh Black Hole's picture

I know how futures markets

I know how futures markets work. For a long time I've been wanting to get into NG futures (of course right now oil and gold look like the way to go).

But what I am arguing is when volume of trading increases, the price naturally goes up. Because of failures in other markets (ie. MBS), investors were looking for a way to cut losses... along came the idea of investing in commodities. Lately the volume of contracts being bought and sold have not been at levels that a person can call sane.

Alex's picture

Dunno

I am skeptical about the argument that volume drives price up. I think commodities are up in general because the dollar is down and supplies are tight. Money can also run to equity elsewhere but it just so happens commodities are a good bet, especially for long-only funds.

Teh Black Hole's picture

The price increase happened

The price increase happened way after the dollar tanked against the euro (and others).

Supplies aren't tight either. Suppliers have been saying there is excess unused capacity in the pipes. Usage is down because prices are high... production is the at the same levels.

I'm not so sure about your

I'm not so sure about your timing -- check this graph:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_sy2qqBjcPIg/SD2H1_xQX2I/AAAAAAAAAhA/CCwExkEzOvM/...

2002 marks the beginning of the dollar decline and also marks the beginning of the rise in the price of oil.

Totally agree about supply though - while global demand is still increasing, it's not increasing by much (US demand is actually decreasing), and global supply is also increasing.

Also interesting, US dollar vs Oil in the last couple years is completely inversely related, i.e. oil goes up, dollar goes down and vice-versa.
http://www.creditflowinvestor.com/USDandOilPrices2006.htm

Lots of fun data and graphs here:
http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm
including major historical events and such. Not sure how to make it useful, but its interesting nonetheless.

Teh Black Hole's picture

That first graph makes no

That first graph makes no sense... how can you compare a commodity against the currency it's traded in. A good graph would be the dollar against the euro* compared to the price of oil.

You can look on the second graph at the bottom comparing the price of oil to the Canadian dollar... quite interesting.

*The euro would be the currency I would compare the dollar to, as the EU is the greatest threat to the dollar-centric economy.

it's an index value of the

it's an index value of the USD. But here's a comparison of the USD index vs the EURO dollar index.
http://stockcharts.com/charts/performance/perf.html?$USD,$XED

(where the slider bar says "200 days", slide the left edge of the slider bar left to get the full time-scale)

The euro is basically flat while the USD tanks.

since 2002:
USD is -40%
EURO is -1%

gong's picture

IEA Report

The International Energy Agency just released a medium-term market report, and they had some things to say that weren't too promising. Namely, that all producers are working virtually flat out, and that there is no sign of any abnormal stockbuild, suggesting that that current prices are justified by fundamentals.

Today's news

Oil Prices Plummet in Biggest One-Day Drop in 17 Years

but it'll probably just go back up tomorrow. *shrug*

Jeff's picture

investors feared a further decline in U.S. demand

The drop in oil was the largest single-day slide in dollar terms since January 17, 1991, when oil fell by $10.56. On that day, President George H.W. Bush withdrew oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve ahead of the first Gulf War. But in 1991, oil was trading at just $32 a barrel, so the $10.56 slide represented a record 33 percent drop. Oil fell 4.4 percent Tuesday, which does not even crack the top 100 price declines in percentage terms.
http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/15/oil-prices-tumble/

IndyFan's picture

Another news source, The

Another news source, The Wall Street Journal, reports that Bush has lifted the executive ban on offshore oil drilling, putting pressure on Congress to act. One analyst reports that California could be producing new oil within a year of Congress's reform of the moratorium.

Alex's picture

nope

there is a crush on the productive capacity the makers of ships and platforms used for offshore drilling. Brazil and I think China have a backlog of orders lasting for a few years.

Won't be next year, but I also think that the ban on offshore drilling should be lifted (I am not convinced it is that dire a thing to do).

IndyFan's picture

We'll see

The Bernstein report says that about 10 billion barrels of California oil is under shallow water and already has been explored. Drilling platforms have been in place since before the moratorium.

the current price of oil is

the current price of oil is strangely similar to the dot.com era dot.com stocks...

dot.com bubble. housing bubble. oil bubble? I noticed that, too. Seems like there's a large group of investors collectively turning their focus from investment to investment.

Teh Black Hole's picture

Once mortgage backed

Once mortgage backed securities tanked, someone spread the word that commodities were the way to bail yourself out. Unlike MBS and dot.com stocks, oil has it's tendrils in all sectors.

I'm not saying the price of oil is good or bad (as the way most people feel it, ie. gasoline prices, doesn't affect me to a great degree). What I am saying though is that the price is not connected entirely to supply/demand.

IndyFan's picture

Surprise! The airlines wrote the memo

Alex's picture

Funny thing is that they may

Funny thing is that they may just get what they ask for.

TimothyJ's picture

Weren't The Speculators

Weren't The Speculators Dylan's backing band at some point?

Jeff's picture

No man,

they opened for the Dead... ;-P

Alex's picture

case in point

From the WSJ, in an article about successful airlines:

Southwest's discount model in the U.S., has kept it profitable for 35 straight years. The carrier, which aggressively hedges its fuel costs, has $3.7 billion of cash in the bank and a market capitalization of $9.9 billion, more than the combined market value of the six-largest conventional U.S. carriers.

AND

With the cash it has generated, Air France-KLM has hedged its fuel needs for four years into the future and is buying fuel-efficient new planes. "We have a little more time to adapt" to soaring fuel prices, says Chief Executive Pierre-Henri Gourgeon.

Teh Black Hole's picture

This all good but...

Airlines take physical delivery of fuel. They aren't in the oil biz to trade paper.

Alex's picture

But

You can't hedge properly or as well if no one speculates if they can only do so if they take delivery. Additinally, without speculators, people who take delivery would be limited in the ways they could exit their positions if they needed additional liquidity before delivery. An illiquid market is riskier and that would cause prices to rise as well.

Not to mention that the effect would not be to stop speculation, but to move it abroad, like Sorbanes Oxley got IPOs to move to the AIM in the London Stock Exchage.

Having said that, making trading more transparent is a good idea, but very different from stopping speculation.

Additionally, if it institutional investors were not allowed to speculate in commodities, pension funds (read, your retirement) would have nothing to offset their losses from their equity investments.

You can regulate markets, but you can't outright forbid trading. Congress is in a froth because they failed to come up with a responsible energy policy and now need to blame someone.

Teh Black Hole's picture

I'm not calling for trading

I'm not calling for trading to stop... just to have limits imposed. I do agree in greater transparency though.

Alex's picture

Those damn speculators are

Those damn speculators are at it again. Apparently they just caused the price to drop to $130. Congress should do something to stop the price of oil from dropping like that.

good explanation of offshore

good explanation of offshore drilling.
Formidable Opponent - Offshore Drilling
(direct link doesn't always work....)