Hi everyone. I received the below email from Representative Oliver that I thought was really interesting. I replied basically that I believe super speeders and other vehicular offenders should have to take more responsibility for their actions. This is a subject that I've been thinking about a lot, as Atlanta's car culture has been getting harder for me to deal with lately... There was an excellent article in the Jan/Feb issue of Bicycling that told the story of several cyclists that had been handicapped or killed by motorists that basically got off with little or no penalty. I would welcome any opportunity for drivers to be made to realize that they're operating deadly machines, not toys, and that they must be responsible for their actions. I know 10 mph over the speed limit is nothing but it's the intent of this legislation that I appreciate. If you're interested, she's soliciting input on this, her email address is at the bottom.
State Rep. Mary Margaret Oliver
www.marymargaretoliver.org
Weekly question: A study committee of legislative leaders, emergency
medical trauma experts, and Governor Sonny Perdue are all calling for
an expanded trauma care system for Georgia, and proposing different
ways to fund this new service that will be designed by the Trauma
Commission created by the General Assembly last year. Do you agree
that an expanded trauma system is needed, and if so, how would you
fund this service? I am a co-sponsor of the trauma funding
legislation and the ideas for funding are:
1. Extra fines on "super speeders" who are convicted of speeding
more than 10 miles over the speed limit; or
2. And additional one dollar fee on monthly cell phone bills; or
3. An additional $10.00 charge on automobile tags.
Which new fund source, if any, makes sense to you? Which would you
choose? To reply to the weekly question, please email me at
mmo@mmolaw.com. Thank you!
option #2 though? So those
option #2 though? So those of us that don't own a car that would never be talking on a cell phone while driving... yeah.
What % of trauma is from car accidents compared to other things? Should a safe driver have to pay for trauma caused by careless drivers (through registration fees or cell phone fees)?
I think what we need is harsher punishments for speeding/etc, but more so ,we definitely need better enforcement. Why is the zero-tolerance thing only on july 4th, labor day, and new years?
yeah
Charging $1 to all cell phone users is kind of like... eliminating the gas tax and replacing it with a sales tax that everybody pays. Which is being considered for future funding for transportation projects. But that's another issue.
Yeah I said that to Rep. Oliver about the enforcement also... I just thought this might be a good opportunity to voice those kind of opinions, in case people think about this stuff but don't really know who to contact. She's actually asking, and she's a state rep, so it seems appropriate to let her know.
grady
this relates to grady right?
ny times article (i haven't read yet)
"Like other public hospitals, Grady is operating on a business model that is no longer sustainable. A third of the hospital’s patients, including those treated as outpatients, are uninsured, among them a rapidly growing group of immigrants. Another third are covered by Medicaid, which reimburses at rates well below Grady’s actual costs. Many hospitals use their privately insured patients to subsidize indigent care, but at Grady, only 8 percent of inpatients fit the privately insured category."
8% of inpatients at grady are privately insured, wow!
I don't know the solution but #2 is a ridiculous indirect tax (there's enough cell phone fees imo), and #1 and #3 wouldn't seem to be enough. If I had to choose one of the 3 to balance the budget, then #3.
but
if we make it work on a business model that does work, might we not take away the last resort of the uninsured.
I'm with lisa and ckake. Tax speeders at a meaningful level and make the increased fines work as a disincentive to one of the causes of trauma. It is a start.
Or we could get the money from increasing taxes on fertilizers or charging churches a fee based on the number of congregants (under the assumption that they all drive). That has as much of a nexus to trauma as the tax on cell phones.
last resort
if grady closes it's doors (on a business model that doesn't work, the current model), what kind of last resort would they be to the uninsured?
don't misquote that
don't misquote that roger.
she said "fit into the privately insured category" not "privately insured". You don't know what the criterion is for being in the "privately insured category". It may mean 100% coverage. It may occlude people who are only paying for the minimum coverage their plan offers.
8%
goddamn.
Progressive fines for
Progressive fines for habitual speeders. Stiffer penalties overall. That alone could generate a lot of revenue. I am not opposed to cameras but real law enforcement is a big enough problem in Atlanta. Tollways on all major interstates at the perimeter is a dream I have from time to time. This way, travelers can avoid the toll fee and commuters can pay their part of the upkeep. This could pay for ALOT! WTF is up w/400? I swear I can hear the moos from inside the toll booths when I go through them.
Agreed. Toll roads can
Agreed. Toll roads can place the burden on the actual users instead of just local tax payers.
and
a congestion charge, like so:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/congestioncharging/default.aspx
definitely support tolls
this would potentially help out with other problems of commuters that make extensive use of intown resources but pay the majority of taxes to some other place.
speeding is a tough issue - cops routinely go 10 over the speed limit as a cruising speed. a bit of "do as i say not as i do" if they start fining other people for that. the other option is cameras...don't know what the lesser of two evils is there.
12
There are twelve trauma centers in the state. http://gaems.net/Hospital_Status/Trauma_Centers/trauma_centers.html The four Level 1 centers are in Savannah, Macon, Augusta, and Atlanta.
The only way to slow speeders in this town is to put big rubber bands across the streets.
Ok, I'm going to warn you
Ok, I'm going to warn you about the clips below... they're really traumatic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7c0qNGbv0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQEboDzE-qE
It pertains to the 10mph thing you said above... as little as ~3mph can make a huge difference between dead/not dead.
The only true control of speeders comes from traffic enforcement... something APD isn't real big on. Their reasons for lack luster enforcement may vary, but I'm sure they include something about commerce.
Did I mention moo the GA400
Did I mention the GA400 cows?
.
stopping distance is proportional to the square of velocity.
sad news from Columbus, GA.
i wonder what will happen to this driver.
"The accident is under investigation and is being turned over to State Patrol's special accident investigation team. It will take at least a month before determining whether any charges will be filed, a post spokesperson said Monday."
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/239737.html
tragic
i wouldn't be against tougher driver reqs
probably nothing
That's my point. At the very least, write to a politician about this stuff. If/when this happens to me, I hope that someone would try to do something about it.
If/when this happens to you
If/when this happens to you I'm going to kick someone's ass.
I do something about it
I do something about it every day. I drive with the utmost criticism to driving etiquette and speak out about it.
A while back, a friend of some of ours was assaulted by a driver. I believe the driver beat the cyclist unconscious and then left the scene. I was affected to the point where I felt inspired enough to come up with a creative way of doing something about it. I started looking into different ideas and even got together with a couple of different people to collaborate some ideas. After spending a month or so trying to make something happen, I realized that it takes a whole lot more than I alone could afford to make something happen.
The truth is, it is hard to do something about it. I don't feel encouraged to contact my senator or whomever about this because I see now that the problem is a systemic problem that is out of even their hands. It takes money and big demand to make anything happen in this city.
Unfortunately, cycling isn't a prominent feature of Atlanta's culture.
I know cyclists who will complain about drivers and then get in their car and do the exact same thing that pisses them off when they're on their bike. That tells me that it is not about the bike. It is our culture. So, when I am in my car, I actually drive within the speed limit at all times and I consider myself an ambassador for motorists and cyclists. You take your pick. But I can tell you that I stand alone.
There are plenty of things that could be done to fix the problems we all witness everyday but ,honestly, it is not our job! Sure, I care and I feel responsible but if I knock on someones window and tell them to drive slower through my neighborhood, you can bet that I'll get yet another terrific rendition of southern apathetic sarcasm since, I ain't got no badge. (You couldn't pay me to be a cop anyway... Neither can Atlanta apparently!)
So: Shouldn't riding a bike be enough?
No.
Talking about it is good,
Doing it is another, Obviously.
Otherwise, I would rather just invite a politician on an evening commute bike ride down Dekalb Avenue or Ponce De Leon Ave.
Maybe, crap in the trousers is as good as gold.
A 17 year old girl is not
A 17 year old girl is not going to go to jail for vehicular manslaughter... ever. (BTW, I'm a bit biased on this...)
10 mph over is a super
10 mph over is a super speeder? Hell, if you drive within 10mph of the speedlimit in most places in the SouthEast your a road hazard!
I'm from IL originally. I was shocked at how fast people drove down here when I moved here (1994). As The Black Hole pointed out, the only way to slow people down is be actually enforcing the laws that we have. Maybe its the NASCAR mentality down here but in IL you WILL be pulled over for speeding. So, when you cross the state line in IL guess what everyone does... they slow down.
We dont need new cell phone taxes, more fines for superspeeders, or new laws. God knows we have enough laws on the books to keep anyone from ever getting injured, possibly injuring someone else, getting their feelings hurt, or offending anyone.
ok
So has anybody emailed the state rep, or contacted anyone about this? Or do we think change will happen if we just talk about it on the FM and drive safely? ;)
Just talk
Clearly, you have not seen this video - the end is particularly apropos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAO4EVMlpwM
nope
I can't see youtube at work.
I didn't mean to sound patronizing or anything before. I don't want to be telling people what to do. But I'm just sick of feeling like I might get killed every morning and evening on my commute. What happened in Columbus could just as easily happen to me, you, any of us. How hard is it to shoot an email, make a phone call, etc.- it wouldn't hurt and may help. I know many don't agree, but I believe contacting the politicians is one action (among others) that may be effective- not that they would care about cyclists, but that to some extent they do need to please their constituents, and they pay attention if enough people speak up. You may choose to do something else, but I just really wish we all would do something. Thank you indyfan for saying you'd kick someone's ass. But this happened to the guy in Columbus and that makes me want to kick someone's ass now, not after it happens again.
nope^2
i'm interested in this accident a little more than most b/c columbus is close to my hometown, so I've asked my parents to keep all the news articles about it. a couple things
a) we're jumping to the conclusion that speeding caused the accident
b) this happened on a country road, not a interstate, can I still speed on the interstate and not feel guilty?
c) i think better drivers (not necessarily slower drivers) make roads safer
d) how do you make drivers better? --> i don't know besides tougher driving reqs, so I don't know what to write to politician
e) do you want capital punishment for the 17 year old girl? (baiting)
f) I just found out that he was hit from behind cyber memorial
e) not capital
but she did kill someone, no? There are plenty of people in prison for much less, like engaging in consensual transactions with consenting adults.
Tough penalties for vehicular crimes do not exist for the same reason that cocaine laws are more lenient than crack ones: they may cause the constituents that count to end up in jail for a long, long time.
I love this thread.
I love this thread...
Ok, ok. This is the part where.. somebody either takes the initiative or is appointed to a leadership role to play the pipe all the way to the capital steps. right?
Alright Lisa. Can you make
Alright Lisa. Can you make it any easier for us?
yeah
I will provide contact info, etc. at some point today. I just also have to do some work...
contact info
Ok- this will be very easy. :)
state and local senators and reps
www.congress.org
Enter your zip code towards the upper right corner. Further detail can be found by clicking the 'local officials' tab on the second to top row. I think contacting representatives would be more effective than senators because there are only 2 senators for the whole state, while the reps have much smaller areas.
Atlanta City Council
http://apps.atlantaga.gov/citycouncil/
Click on the photos. Natalyn Archibong has always been really interested in hearing my concerns and has been effective at resolving issues, I hope the others are too.
effective email/letter writing
http://www.peds.org/take_letter.htm
This is a pedestrian advocacy site with good advice.
What else do we need? Let me know- I am going to try to compile something and have ABC, GA Bikes, etc. hopefully post it on their websites. ABC already has contact info for city and county agencies for requesting grate turning, etc. on their site (www.atlantabike.org).
One more thing. ABC (Atlanta Bicycle Campaign) is the area's main advocacy organization and may have more 'pull'- Rebecca participates in meetings with local government and planning organizations, and has extensive contacts adn resources. Joining ABC is another way (so easy too) to support better cycling by getting our voices heard by the people that need to hear them.
Can we start a thread
Can we start a thread posting the letters that go to these contact? If people see that these letters are getting out, then people might be more inspired to write them as well.
maybe a new forum for
maybe a new forum for "bicycle advocacy"? a thread to post events on upcoming neighborhood or local gov't meetings or current safety campaigns? It seems that, as we are all growing and maturing, as cyclists and people, safety is becoming a real issue and not just "lets get drunk this weekend" (which i don't mean to oppose).
Time is money
Since reckless, speeding drivers seem to be in such a rush, possibly the best penalty would be to dock their time. (Ever been stopped by a police officer for speeding? Notice how s-l-o-w-l-y they write their ticket? That is a deliberate messsage to you that your time isn't worth a plugged nickel to them.)
Offenders who speed and or intimidate/hit cyclists should be made to pay dearly with their time. Public service penalties would make an impression that signing checks never will.
+1
Its obvious how willing people are to part with their money if it means continuing to drive (i.e. increases in gas prices and new car prices). People are much aware when someone is taking their time vs. taking their money.
Well. I had a situation
Well. I had a situation where the offending driver would gladly do defensive driving classes rather than pay lots of money and have their drivers license points removed. I don't think time is enough.
clip
"I would recommend that your experts study the causes of trauma and direct your efforts towards reducing the need for these centers. I think you would find that automobiles and violent crime send more people to trauma care than other causes. Better application of existing laws (enforcement) would go a long way towards reducing the wasteful need for trauma care."
I have a friend that is a
I have a friend that is a competitive cyclist who also works at Grady. She said The majority of emergency trauma patients are auto collision related. Next down the list is by gun fire. So there is witnessed proof to that.
Almost Hit Today, As A Matter of Fact
Going down North Ave at 8:15ish this morning, a driver sped up behind me and whipped in front of me to merge, nearly sideswiping me. If I hadn't braked, then I would be a grease spot.
Part of the problem is that there's a kind of bumper car mentality prevalent amongst motorists and motor vehicle law. The policeman I talked to at City Hall East, where I work, told me that without a collosion there's little that can be done in filing charges.
The problem for cyclists is that a collosion is a little too late. We avoid collosions for obvious reasons, but the law doesn't seem to do much for curtailing dangerous motorist behavior around us.
Perhaps...
Perhaps in situations such as this most recent cycling accident where we don't know the specific cause of the accident (speeding, cell phone, and so on), this point might be the most effective in pointing out a problem to a governing official. Waiting for a collision to protest dangerous driving could be fatal.
and I now have 2 collisions
and I now have 2 collisions for which the cops tell me, "without an additional witness, there's not much we can do". Apparently, a description of the car including full license plate is not enough to press charges.