I am starting a new thread because the suggestions thread grew too large and I think this topic deserves its own thread.
My first thought is that tracking the male/female speed issue through physiological differences may not be helpful. The two are different and for the most part the differences are pretty cool.
Here is the reality:
Some of the women racers on FM 24 are faster than most guys can only dream of being (yours truly included).
Speed aside, prize purses for women cyclists tend to be smaller then men’s.
Having more women racers, riders, friends, drinking buddies and FMers is a good thing.
One way to increase the number of women racers is to make prizes equal to men’s for all-female teams.
FM is a progressive organization (says so right there in the font page), so we could make sure that there is parity in the prizes to show all other sports organizers how it is done. Hell, if I am still employed next year, I am making a commitment right now to cover the difference in prizes between the first team overall and the first all-female team if that is not the same team, if it comes down to that (though I am sure sponsors will be awesome and will get excited about the idea of parity in prizes and that whatever out of pocked damage I have will be minimal).
I think having a prize for first all female team will encourage the formation of competitive all-women’s teams. I think that other women will be pumped about riding in coed teams. I think some teams will count their blessings if they are able to attract some of the women racers we have because they are just fast, period – Blitzkrieg and the Mashers were proof of that.
The race was fun. The all-female teams were awesome, the all-male teams were awesome, the mixed teams were awesome and the solo riders of both sexes were awesome. FM is probably the largest urban bike race in the country (other than the world messenger championship, which rotates countries), and we are on to a good thing here. It is open format, so everyone can do a bit to make it better (dates, spoke cards, prizes, sexy socks, it is all up to each of us).
So do we have a '1st' prize
So do we have a '1st' prize for fastest all male, fastest all female, and fastest co-ed teams? Then another for Fastest fastest team?
I don't know if the whole 'treated equally vs. treated as equals' argument comes into play here.... but maybe it does.
A suggestion: Allocate the
A suggestion: Allocate the prizes according to participants.
If 70% of teams are male and 30% female, try and allocate the awards that way. Same with individual. I don't think you allow enough entrants to split everything up into too many categories, but I think there could be improvements. From the vibe I get, FM is all about making continued improvements.
Also, everybody who wants to see more prizes awarded could probably get involved in contacting possible sponsors for more prizes, including some geared, or earmarked, specifically towards female riders.
You folks did an incredible job acquiring swag for the race. As a participant in over a hundred triathlons I have never seen such a spread of stuff. I was amazed! FM obviously cares about its race and it racers.
No
One for fastest fastest who get 1st place prizes and the same prizes for fastest all-female.
My suggestion has nothing to do with equality. It is an incentive to attract women who are serious about racing. This year proved that if a team wants to be the fastest female team they would have to work pretty hard. I think TNT's performance was a watershed in the race and we need to acknowledge that all female teams can be among the most competitive in the race. I don't think anyone thought that we would have an all female team as competitive as they were - not because women can't compete, but because we had not had such an experience in this race. This year changed everything and I think we can acknowledge that next year. This is not unlike having had a really competitive solo category last year and I can only imagine how fiercely fast the all female teams will be next year.
Once we achieve speed parity where an all female team is as likely to win the race as an all male team then we can re-think the prizes and say that the fastest fastest team takes the awesomest awesome prizes and the other teams get the less awesome awesome prizes. If that happens next year then we can just redistribute the prizes that would have gone to the fastest all female team amongst the 2nd, 3rd and whatever other teams get prizes.
Progressive Prize allocation
We may have a higher percentage of females racing than other races, and we definitely have more attractive females racing, than other races. I think what the ladies contribute to our races in terms of great attitude, energy, competitiveness, and hotness are equal to or greater than what males bring and we need to award them adequately.
with dollar bills?
with dollar bills?
You gotta go out more
if you think dollar bills work anymore.
hoo hoo.. no i don't.. i
hoo hoo.. no i don't.. i couldnt afford it when the $1s worked!
make it rain
$$$
BMF4EVAH
Do yo'raindance, ARTFAG!
One of FM's rules is that
One of FM's rules is that everyone's invited, even assholes, but when you're asshole you're gonna hear about it(just ask Seth) - and that comment was bullshit. Did you even ride all night? The women Alex is talking about did. The women on the Taco teams, TNT, and especially my teams, Blitzkrieg and Keine Panik, rode a shitload of laps when you were in bed in the burbs.
Woops
I was wrong... I checked the list, and this guy finished laps at 1:56pm, 9:28pm, 3:44am and 6:59am for team Fucking RAF. Sorry.
That was still a shitty comment
Fucking hotheaded feminists
It is all that testosterone...
Well it was meant to call
Well it was meant to call out the previous comment that essentially (as I interpreted the comment) it was nice having female objects hanging around. Mine was an asshole comment, but I think it was on your side.
yeah,
I get it. btw, I'm an asshole too
next year.. team assholes!
next year.. team assholes!
Alex can be captain
while we're at it... this pissed me off too. Not just the speling.
gentlemen...
get a room already.
Geeez
He treats objects like women, man
Yeah I guess I did portray women as objects. Objects with personality and energy and aesthetic. So in a sense, an object with life. An object that brings life and value to our race, just like men. I guess that is how I value people - whether they bring good energy, attitude, and beauty to our world.
sorry man. i had stopped
sorry man. i had stopped "listening" at attractive and my knee jerked at "hotness." you did have other things than that to say; and in all honestly there's nothing wrong with appreciating what's beautiful. my fault
grok
?
Believe me... I hear about
Believe me... I hear about it... but something about assholes and opinions... something The Panda told me... I wasn't really paying attention, cause I don't make a habit of listening to talking bears.
+1 to the women that rode. You put my performance to shame... as well as the remaining portion of my team. TNT kicked some serious ass, as did Rosie and Jenny on Blitzkrieg.
You mean cash prizes?!?!?!?
You mean cash prizes?!?!?!?
so wait
isn't it sexist to have a category for females? i mean, isn't that just saying they're not equal to males? wtf, progressiveness?
depends
how do you feel about "reverse racism"?
dunno
i don't complain about racism in the first place.
Treated
as equals or equally?
yes it is
if one ignores all the other arguments I made around it and the context of the discussion, sure.
i like alex's suggestions
and i appreciate this conversation. a bike race isn't going to solve sexism/male privilege, but it's nice to be a part of a cycling community that is willing to respond to it and make things a little more equitable amongst ourselves.
if any dudes are really wondering about how to address root problems as they pertain to gender inequity, i can point you in the direction of some resources.
on a lighter note, my general disinterest in the prizes made me feel better about being on a more or less casual team. maybe the answer is having prizes that no one wants.
Or no prizes at all... aside
Or no prizes at all... aside from a cheap trophy.
Just a thought.
Do I understand you right?
When you say:
"if any dudes are really wondering about how to address root problems as they pertain to gender inequity, i can point you in the direction of some resources."
Does that mean you would, like, imtroduce us to some girls and stuff?
prizes that no one wants
taint punches for the winners!
Slowest Race on Record
Now if the winners get one free taint punch to whomever s/he pleases, now that's a prize! But we're talking about prizes no one wants: how about pecker warts?
of course, they were rad prizes
not hating! not hating!
the feedback that I had promised...
about this boy/girl thing, I think the best course is to not separate the categories. My reasoning is that following normal categories like a USCF race will make this event seem just like any other squid event. I LOVED the awards given away for reasons other than high lap count. That part was so cool. I also loved that stats that Chris called out; it made me feel like we all collectively did great last weekend - even though I'm a lowly squid.
If you do separate the categories, please avoid announcing "men's solo podium" if you're not going to immediately follow with "women's solo podium". That's just polite!
Finally, women can potentially be competitive with men at the amateur level but not at the pro level, or the superstar level of Mouhamed or Tim.
Thanks for the great race!
just saw this thread...
so after the race, i started doing some research on men vs women performance in cycling and other sports. from my research, the reasons range from many physiological, societal, & hormonal. to me the hormonal difference seems to be the true variable. there was a time before drug testing, when women were catching men's marathon times. however, as one article states below "drug testing is bringing back the physiological gender gap." here are some links...
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/95/4/1632?ck=nck
http://home.hia.no/~stephens/gender.htm
running specific but has a nice summary of why women aren't catching up with men
http://sportsci.org/news/news9705/gengap.html
1. Women at the amateur level CAN be competitive with men at the amateur level! That was proven this past weekend. However, the amount of stress that a woman undergoes to do a 50 min lap is greater than that endured by a man with the same training regiment. (see journal of applied physiology, which shows that recovery seems to be similar, but women have lower overall performance & greater fatigability.) Thus, we should be awarding women for working as hard as the men, that's the idea!
2. A women's team COULD win the FM 24 hr race! In order to surpass the AVX team, which was mainly composed of Cat 2-3 riders, you'd have to assemble a team of Cat 1 women (and even then it'd be pretty close.)
Asking for women to be recognized once they've beaten all the men is unequal. If any year an all women's team (on the same category level) wins FM24 hr, I'll eat my shoes.
Little Lady Landis (Trip L, for Short)
Ya want some testosterone, maybe?
You could grow a mustache, faster?
Don't eat them
1. They might not be vegan, and everyone knows that non-vegan food is evil.
2. They may impact on your performance
Like I said, if sponsors do not close the gap between 1st men's and first women's prizes, I will make sure to rally the troops to make a cash contribution to buy prizes that will bridge the gap in the prize differential.
Just make sure you win... and don't seduce Jenny away from Blitzkrieg.
Ja, Bitte
No seducing Jenny away from us.
She's our not-so-secret weapon.
oops
Nevermind, I posted something and changed my mind... too much of a long story to start. Carry on.
weapon is right!
Jenny was totally kicking my ass on the Century down in Senoia today. She may hate hills, but damn can she sprint. And that pace?... methinks I'll pass out now.
it bears repeating
she has only been riding for less than 2 years...
We might have a cycling Lewis Hamilton in our hands.
Yes, the century was a blast.
Though painful. I think we all paid for that early fast pace from say, mile 60 onward.