This thread is dedicated to determining a route and the checkpoints for the 2nd Annual 24Hr Urban Bicycle Relay!
Join us and commit to helping making this relay a reality.
We need route proposals and these proposals need to be tested for final route determination.
We need checkpoints on the final route.
We need to decide on the tracking system.
We need to secure everything needed to make the tracking/scoring happen.
Begin.
A figure eight route shape?
One idea on the route is to think of it as a figure eight and not a loop. Actually I think I remember Dawn mentioning this back in the early days, before a Wednesday night ride.
I never thought a figure eight would work with Estoria as a host, but with Johnny's I think it could.
This way the host would be a checkpoint and start/finish. Plus this shape minimizes the max distance a rider is away, in case anything happens, a breakdown, fall asleep, etc.
tonight's route test -
stephanie mentioned that Skip and Justin and proposed a route and we will be riding it tonight. come out to SFCoffee for the usual Wed night ride and we can check it out.
i tried to map it out and had to improvise a little because there was nothing linking West Peachtree with Peachtree. i went to 17th in the tradition of wed nights. i'm also wondering if they meant peachtree to baker back to highland. is this a one way? only came up to 8.25 miles. this may be where we can add the back side of the figure eight on after testing...
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=433397
West Peachtree merges onto
West Peachtree merges onto Peachtree at Pershing Point. Remeber how we forgot to turn at 17th last week, then turned directly onto Peachtree? That's it.
Also, Baker *is* one way -- the wrong way.
take ralph mcgill
then a road like central park place after the interstate.
easy fix.
Or Harris -> Piedmont ->
Or Harris -> Piedmont -> Baker. Does that work?
i think so
but then you have that nasty merging with traffic from the interstate at the intersection of piedmont and baker/highlands connector. you want to make a right onto B/H's and traffic merges from the right also.
ah yes.
i remember.
Tracking
Everhowmany check points we have, thats how many different hole punchers we have. They are chained to poles anti-theft style. Teams have pre-printed lap cards. Each lap has a corresponding colored card (ie: yellow=1, blue=2, etc). We only give out a lap card when we receive their last lap card. They can't pull more than one lap card so they only get counted for the laps they do! Every checkpoint has to be punched with its corresponding hole-type (ie: circle, star, square, etc). Questions? Concerns? +1s?
nice!
+1
cards - michaels
punches - michaels
templates - scrap sheet metal
lockup - it'll happen
administration - laptop/volunteers
last year the winning team
last year the winning team did something like 30+ laps. we need something other than different colored cards to distinguish each lap. (i don't think they make paper in 30 different colors.)
Have you been to the art
Have you been to the art supply store lately?
They do, but it would probably be easier to get a set number of different colors -- say 5 or 10, and then mark them differently. So it goes something like this: We have red for the first lap, orange for the second lap, yellow for the third lap, green for the fourth lap and blue for the fith lap. Each of those have a cog drawn on them. Then we start over with red and each of those have a helmet on them, etc. Get the idea?
yes, i was being sarcastic!
yes, i was being sarcastic!
;)
I don't know.. I think it might be fun to have crazy marbelized paper, wierdo wrapping paper, etc.
why can't each team have a
why can't each team have a color or type of paper... then each lap card be numbered by a special Logo or lap number... it can even be laminated sheets of colored construction paper printed on by a computer or something... make each team about thrity five or so... one peice of paper can be six cards.
i am expecting about 15 - 20 teams .
Good point
The only goal here is to prevent teams from getting more than one card and punching them for more than one lap. If we preprint them with lap numbers, the colors won't matter so much.
anything printed/written on
anything printed/written on paper can get unreadable very quickly in a sweaty jersey pocket. over 24 hours the paper itself may not survive, especially if touched repeatedly by sweaty rider hands.
but sandwich baggies work wonders!
We would still do a card per
We would still do a card per lap, right?
lap cards
Riders get a fresh lap card before every lap. It shouldn't get too messed up in one lap. Besides, bicycle couriers are responsible for the condition of the goods they deliver. Why shouldn't the racer be responsible for the condition of his/her lap card?
true.
also, we could even laminate the cards for longevity... maybe with a specific FM 24HR 2.0 seal for authenticity.
2 words
Lap Poodles!
how about a deck of cards??
how about a deck of cards?? 52 unique and pretty sturdy cards....
Ja, schoen
Sounds good. A unique deck of playing cards for each team sounds really good. Plus, you could later laminate them for spoke cards.
or
paint chip samples from the hardware store (free)
you can
get cards for really cheap
I'm just saying ...
Poodle addicts anonymous
see: http://www.dogster.com/group/grp_page.php?g=580
tracking system
most CDMA phones have GPS capability (it's important not only for getting a signal, but for 911 calls). I discovered how to use the gps on mine (an LG VX5200 from Verizon) and I am able to get my LAT & LONG, but I haven't figured out a way to send this info. For those of you with a VX 5200 press: "OK" (or the Menu button) then 0,000000 (you should be prompted to enter a "service code"this is all 0's). Press 2 (Field Tests), press 6 (gpsone). Then press 2 toverify the test number, (use 922, this is the moviefone #), then press 1 to turn on the gpsone test screen. Now go back to your phone's main screen and dial "922". The gpsone screen should pop up and you should be able to read your lat, long, time, and elevation. I'm unsure of the accuracy of this.
If you don't have the same phone, chances are you can still activate the same gps stuff, but you may have to look around for the right activation sequence.
Given that most of us have GPS on our phones, there might be a way to write a java app that takes the gps data and sends it as a text message. After writing the code we're still left with the laborious task of transferring the app to phones, and then we'll probably have some debugging as the OS's may differ from phone to phone
Been there, done that.It
Been there, done that.
It doesn't work for reasons posted weeks ago.
A short summary is:
1) GPS API is not available or very expensive to use in software on all but one carrier.
2) GPS DRAINS the battery like nobody's business, thus you need an ass load of extra batteries, and you have to keep charging them alnight. This means lots of electrical outlets, lots of work, little fun, etc...
3) GPS don't work very well on days like this, ie. raining.
4) JaveME incompatibilities are legendary and significate.
you get the picture.
java: write once. debug
java: write once. debug everywhere.
so true.
so true.
here is another proposal
here is another proposal that takes away some of the confusion...
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=434532.
this one takes a left onto 10th then goes to through Virgina into the Highlands... Like last years. we can extend it into the park also by taking a left onto McLendon and then taking a cross at Whitefoord to LaFrance onto rogers... Hosa to wylie to Krog to sampson which ends at johnnys... depends on how long to make the race.
The link above is 10.1 miles
the extention is 13.75 miles
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=434545.
++1 on the ten mile route.
++1 on the ten mile route.
The Last hill comming up to
The Last hill comming up to Johnny's is awesome!!! i definitely felt like i had been around the block a bit...
we (one Fixie and one geared) did a CASUAL ride and it took us about 50 mins or so .... This is stopping at most traffic lights and was about 2:00-3:00 in the afternoon through down town... which isn't congested with traffic yet. I can see people pushing it and pulling 35 - 40 min laps being fast as balls.
I rode the extention... it
I rode the extention... it might extend the race a little too long ...and there are railroad tracks on LaFrance and then really bad ones on Wylie... but it's a fun ride. The far end of Wylie gets shady at night with people hanging around outside...
I've never been a fan of
I've never been a fan of riding down HLW either... even if it is part of the PATH.
the ten mile route
looks great from the map, looks like a tough ride down w. peachteree. and oh yeah, that fucking neverending hill up to N Highland. Strategic checkpoints for sure.
look at this
http://fastermustache.org/node/2042#comment-21216
come to progress meeting 2.0, talk about checkpoint charlie sh*t
Monday the 25th @ Johnny's, 8pm
2.0 thread: http://fastermustache.org/node/2083
Route
OK, we discussed the route and checkpoints and came up with a suggested route/checkpoints based largely on Stephanie's route which I believe is based largely on Skip's route. Here goes:
Start at Johnny's Pizza and head West on N. Highland.
South on Randolph.
Right on Edgewood.
Checkpoint across Edgewood from Thumbs Up Diner.
West on Edgewood to Peachtree Street.
North on Peachtree Street.
Checkpoint at the North End of Woodruff Park.
North on Peachtree Street.
Checkpoint at raised median at corner of Ponce and Peachtree.
North on Peachtree St.
Checkpoint at corner of Peachtree and West Peachtree
Back down Peachtree, then East on 14th st. to Juniper
Checkpoint at 14th st. Playhouse.
South on Juniper, East on 10th, East on Virginia.
Checkpoint at corner of Virginia and N. Highland.
Highland home to Johnny's.
A couple thoughts on the route:
This year we are providing a suggested route. The first lap of the race will be a community lap on the suggested route. During the race riders may choose a different route so long as they hit all of the checkpoints.
There is a "Ride and Revise" ride on Wednesday (TOMORROW) where the route will be ridden and discussed and maybe changed maybe. This is posted as an event. Thanks!
peachtree is really damaged
peachtree is really damaged right now and it will be for awhile.
have you guys ridden the proposal yet? everything merges into each other with out crossing over traffic. and check points are at corners so that the route is the most efficient way to go ... can be no short cuts. this is giving alot of room for short cuts to each points
Route sounds sweet, I'm just
Route sounds sweet, I'm just concerned about the visibility of the checkpoints as far as interaction with law enforcement may be concerned.
then i guess you should have
then i guess you should have come to the meeting.
i should have. too bad there
i should have. too bad there aren't more hours in the day.
i work until 11 every monday
i work until 11 every monday and will never be able to make a monday meeting unless it's after 11pm.
i call several people but no one called me back about what was talked about. ...
'ride and revise' -> follow up
here is the 'suggested' route map. there were strong feelings for w.peachtree versus peachtree and a defined route race versus checkpoint any way you get to them type of race. this is the 'suggested' map to be used at your discretion. tomorrow night we should ride the proposed route and actually stop and scope out each of the proposed checkpoints for feasibility, visibility, etc.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=459473
i prefer ptree to west
i prefer ptree to west ptree. I think the check point in the middle (at north and ptree) will keep people from jumping on to wptree to cheat. westptree is really shitty road condition and it won't have any good traffic (which i think was a fun/critical component last year)
p.s. i won't be there tomorrow to discuss this.
my sentiments exactly
those were similar to my comments, and i think that it was split about the middle. there might have been a slight majority in favor of peachtree. we were also talking about requiring people to switch somehow, but that seems difficult.
Ditto Jason+
Ditto Jason+. West Ptree is just tumbleweeds after 2am.
I won't be there tomorrow also, but I just did the route in ~35min.
My impressions are that the route is BORING, way too flat, only decent hill is highland and you can avoid that just by using the path option.
I also think the route is too short. I mean, msg'ers will be under 30min no problemo.
Suggestions:
1) Include the golf course hill from last year (off of North Ave)
2) Put a checkpoint at the bottom of CBH (that's CastleBerry Hill for OTP'ers) at Walker and Peters.
that hill kicks my ass
but you are probably right. there was a jog towards little five in the original proposal, but we ruled it out because it didn't add much mileage, or hillage, just adding a bunch of turns. i think that (a right turn from) highland onto north up that hill and down mclendon -> euclid makes a lot of sense. and you are right, i didn't think about the path option, which everyone will totally take.
i like that hill but getting
i like that hill but getting to it was more "tumble weeds". That was the one place in the race i didn't want to fall down or have a flat. Dark + neighborhoods (rich or poor) + no street lighting = not much fun race.
There are other hills that could be added. I liked the Memorial Ave (road, street?) hill from last year.
Drive. Which hill is that?
Drive. Which hill is that? (I wasn't in the race last year)
That'd be a left from
That'd be a left from Highland to North, I believe.
west peachtree is full of
west peachtree is full of traffic on sat night....
also it only has only one small area of constuction (near merger from spring) which takes up only two of it's four lanes verse all of peachtree being marred up.
if your riding in traffic white lining cars it is dangerous to have huge grooves in the road dividing lanes that you can't pay attention to because of traffic....
I ride West Ptree all the
I ride West Ptree all the time personally, but the problem with it in this kinda race is that its just not well suited. What traffic it does have is going way to fast (since its one-way) to be enjoyable for lane splitting, and there is no street scene. Ptree is kinda rough, but not for long, and its the main street of Atlanta. Plus when its a parking lot(most of Sat. nite), its great fun to split lanes going in both directions. Heck even the big ped sign @ 6th ain't that bad, just ask toomanyaustins... (btw, I'll post a modified route later tonite)
As is, the route seems like a default CM route.
i would be severely
depressed if we didnt ride on peachtree through midtown. that WAS the 24 hour race for me last year. funnest part, hands down. besides being delirious and drunk and stuff.
it does go down peachtree
it does go down peachtree but south....
yeah
but 17th -> 10th is a little dry. between north and 10th is the real action.
+10, but it is a group
+10, but it is a group decision...
~1.7
the idea was a compromise. we left off a midway checkpoint on either road so that you get to choose between ptree or wptree heading north the whole way! i'm also torn, but i like them both a lot and ride them both a lot...
ditto, ditto
thanks for the feedback. i agree that the route did get pretty watered down by eliminating some distance, turns and most of the hills on the previous proposed route. the only hills left are highland (skipable on path) and virginia (skipable on park). we did add some serious night time traffic which will be fun.
chris - since you can't make it tommorrow, can you show us (map) the walker/peter's checkpoint and work it into the 'suggested' route. i know we rode through there the other night but i'm having a hard time picturing it.
also - is everyone cool with making this into a checkpoint style race (get them however the hell you want - ptree, wptree, park, 10th, etc...)? it was pretty much decided last night that a 'suggested' route will be provided to help out of towners. it is likely that the 'suggested' route will be the safest, most legal and possibly the fastest.
i like the checkpoint style
i like the checkpoint style race but given the size, i keep thinking that a route is good for making sure we can find people if there are "incidents" as well as spectation/videoagphering/etc.
I'd say: here is the route. you don't _have_ to take this route but you are own your own if you deviate from it and you still must stop by all the checkpoints.
i agree
i didnt race last year, but from what i have read, the route was mandatory so that if something happened while you were out there, another biker wouldnt be to far behind to lend a hand.
-=mte=-
I agree. The most important
I agree. The most important part IMHO of having a set route is the fact that someone will always be coming through behind anyone who has an incident. Since the race will be at all hours with various states of drunkeness and sleeplessness, I think this safety factor is more important than in another kind of race.
it was
"mandatory" but alot of people shortened it however they could which wwas one of the things that had a few people frustrated, don't cheat and get a slower time or cheat a little bit like everyone else and have times on level with the other people who have stretched the route. thus if you allowed people as much discretion as possible while hitting set checkpoints an official suggested route will help those with unfamiliarity and the nature of peoples creativity will drive them to suite the route to their tallents skipping a hill here taking shooting up one to cut distance somewhere else, cutting through an alley or two, and takin west peach or peach
I agree with Skip. Part of
I agree with Skip. Part of the race should be freedom to choose the best route while hitting the checkpoints, but still having a set route for those that don't know the area (we're all from the ATL, so I'd argue that everyone knows the area). Also, if one chooses to go off the 'set' route, they are choosing to do so at their own risk. I have also brought up that 2-way pre-paid Nextels can be had for the race at a VERY reasonable price if a person feels the need to have direct and steady communication with homebase or their SAG personell.
Hmmm
I'm still in favor of having a set route because it's a lap race and people will win based on number of laps. Because of that, I think it's important to prevent shortcuts as much as possible. Granted, I think it'll be impossible to enforce a set route, so we'll just have to do the best we can to come up with checkpoints that frame the route the way we want it to go.
Its alot easier to comment
Its alot easier to comment on a route than to make one!
Here's a modified route that is 12.5 miles and a bit harder. One of the things that occurred to me yesterday was that we're all much better riders this year.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=461829
Major Highlights:
1) Avoid the whole road crack from hell on N Highland, by going down Sampson.
2) Avoid Edgewood, because everybody and their grandmother rides that freaking road.
3) Route through Krog (say hello to Estoria if you want...)
4) Follow Memorial out to CastleBerry Hill.
5) Cut back up through downtown to Woodruff Park.
6) Bomb Ptree, but only upto 14 street. If we go higher then the obvious shortcut is via the Park, and somebody on this board already got a $75 ticket for cutting through the park. So if you avoid the Park on the route, the law won't be on the lookout.
6) Downtown 10th, then Virginia, then N. Highland.
7) Take a left off N. Highland onto Blue Ridge, ie. SanFran Coffee. This is a common starting sequence for Wednesday night riders.
8) Weave over to Mclendon, then up the hill.
9) Down Euclid, then cutover to N Highland and up the hill of death to Johnny's.
Checkpoints: (not exhaustive)
I think we should try to place them near sponsors if possible.
0) Add one in CabbageTown.
1) Add a checkpoint @ 931 Monroe (lots of sponsors there, and cool 24 hr onsite guard), plus this checkpoint(CP) would nearly eliminate Piedmont Park cut throughs.
2) Nix the CP on Ponce and Ptree, move it south to the intersection of Ptree and Baker Street, i think its Ivy Park or something.
3) Add a CP in CastleBerry at Walker and Peters
4) Nudge the CP on the North end of Woodruff to the South end.
5) Add a couple of CPs on the eastern edge to keep the route's integrity.
Comment at your leisure.
Some of these options were
Some of these options were discussed. Cutting through the park as an option was not necessarily considered a bad thing -- though people should avoid it after the park is closed. A checkpoint at the Pavillion of the Arts (or whatever it's called) at Peachtree, Baker, & West Peachtree was ruled out as being too close to Woodruff -- which wouldn't be an issue if we go through CBH. North Woodruff has less sketchy homeless people at night than South Woodruff. Checkpoints are estimated to cost $25 each and add 1 min to race time. These are things to consider when choosing the number of checkpoints.
Thanks. Good to know, sorry
Thanks.
Good to know, sorry I wasn't there, but the blame for that belongs to Donald. He told me to meet him @ SE ~9pm for some cherry red phil hubs for like $20/pair.
Hmmm, I wonder if everybody knows that thePanda allows the Midtown "men in blue" to use Skate Escape's grinders to remove serial numbers from bicycles they pickup? (vbg, tic)
PS. The idea of an alleycat checkpoint style race was mine, before thePanda stole it from me. Not that I'm mad or anything, but I' just saying...
Well, Donald was there at
Well, Donald was there at the meeting, so it was silly of you to skip it to meet up with him. :P
ride and revise - TONIGHT!!
i hope some folks can come out tonight. i'll bring copies of each of the 3 proposals with mentioned checkpoints marked. the proposal with the most interest will be ridden and a route/checkpoint feasibility study will ensue.
my thoughts:
--> 1 - stephanie/skip 10.1 mile route -
fun and fast
lacks the PTree element
--> 2 - Monday night's meeting 9.3 mile route -
fun and fast
maybe watered down
noobs would enjoy racing and come back
experienced people could pull multiple laps
--> 3 - Chris' 12.5 mile route -
looks fun and tough
a lot of hills
some terrian with RR on Irwin, potholes on Carrol and gap on Peters (i almost ate it sat)
noobs (and me) would likely be very tired
maybe a compromise between 2 and 3? maybe choose between adding Memorial/CBH or McClendon/Little5 to route 2?
and i think the checkpoint system wins due to logic and nature of the beast. safety is still an issue so you should try to let your teammates know if/where you are straying from the 'suggested' route and try to keep a charged phone on you (and maybe a note in your pocket or across your chest for worst case).
spoke cards from last year
spoke cards from last year had emergency contact info and a map on them btw
that's just one of those
that's just one of those effing simple, but absolutely brilliant ideas.
re: experienced people could pull multiple laps
if there is a strong rider who can ride multiple consecutive laps, could everybody else on that rider's team wander off to a movie or dinner or something and then come back later?
is that ok or are there rules about how many people on a team need to be present at any particular time?
no rules
last year this was common because lots of people had to work or had previous committments during parts of the race. Some people were really awesome and abandoned their team to go see The National play at the Earl in what was probably the most sweetest show to never happen again. Thanks scott. Thanks a lot. Sniff.
WTF!
i missed the race and the national!?!? what the hell was i doing last year?
so theoretically, your
so theoretically, your entire team could be like, 'bollocks to this' and not be racing at any given point until they decided they wanted to again? ie, there are no rules stipulating you have to have one member out on the track at any given time?
right-o
right-o
i think so...
no one racing = no laps = you lose.
obviously, but there's a
obviously, but there's a difference between racing for fun and simply not racing at all. doing laps when you feel like you want to, instead of being forced to, should be the ideal goal if your team is there to just hang out and have fun. not all of us are going to be super-competitive about it.
Its perfectly cool for
Its perfectly cool for people to just want the badass T-Shirt.
I'm all about the mug.
I'm all about the mug. That'll pay for itself a bajillion times over.
i think a good rule is each
i think a good rule is each person on the team must do atleast 1 lap. Thats how 24 hours of adrenalin does it.
Hmm, I thought the rule was
Hmm, I thought the rule was $15!!!
there is that, but this is
there is that, but this is about riding bikes after all :) Heck, 24oA is $100+ a head and they still make each person ride atleast one lap.
minimum one lap to be
minimum one lap to be considered a team sounds good. No free-riders that way. I doubt it'll be a problem anyways, like you said, it IS about biking and we're all (presumably) into it. The trick is maintaining that enthusiasm about biking at 4am and you've got to get going. ;)
or waking up xtophers drunk
or waking up xtophers drunk ass at 6am to get the box key from him so [I] can do a lap.
Last year it was more
Last year it was more comfortable to be on a bike than to try to sleep on the ill-fitting wooden booths @ Estoria.
Out of maybe 12-13 teams, only two/three were really competing, so riding the route with another competitor is not uncommon. Plus the city is really quite early sunday morning.
hey hey hey!!!
there were at least 5 competitive teams!
Heck, your team rider out on
Heck, your team rider out on the route doesn't even have to be conscience, but nevertheless a pulse is still required.
thanks man!
thanks man!