I've talked with some people here at work and we came up with the following.. They can probably provide a pretty decent amount of hardware as long as we can secure it. This may be a bit costly but we may be able to get enough interested parties to buy the hardware.
Each rider has a bluetooth enabled GPS receiver that can store routes. They stop by each checkpoint and a pda talks to the GPS receiver, gets their route and their team ID, uploads it via edge or wifi, and says their team name on a speaker to let them know their "checkin" is complete.
A website could display this information real time and the GPS would let us do things like show who passed who where, how fast people were riding, etc, etc.
It's overkill but fun. Thoughts? modifications?
I like the fact that a
I like the fact that a receiver would make it more difficult to use shortcuts.
As far as security, would it be bad to ask teams to put a deposit on the GPS receivers? Call it beer money held in escrow until the end of the race.
And live update maps with
And live update maps with routes and speeds and positions and all that are sweet.
deposit would be acceptable i think. We're probably looking at close to 100$ a pop for 25 of them if we have to purchase them (I'd want to keep one afterwards and if enough people are interested we might be able to break it up that way so that the people that end up wanting them end up with the financial hit)
this shit
sounds amazing. let get it. and fucking rock it.
I'm heading out of town for
I'm heading out of town for a while but if anyone wants to research around for a bluetooth-capable gps receiver that can store routes and has enough juice to go for 24 hours that'd certainly let us do it to it quicker..
I'll poke a bit
I like toys.
What happens if
when they try to "checkin" and something doesn't work--what kind of backup plan would work. You don't want people waiting at a checkin point because their bluetooth gps can't get a sweet lock on momma's gadget.
Also, just a point of discussion: does it seem a bit incongruous to have this much technoology in a race where many (if not most) will be riding fixed--and the reason for fixed is to simplify (among many other reasons). I like tech toys too, just seems like an inbalance in the bigger scheme of thing.
have a couple of backup units
swap, and troublehsoot the angry one.
I think people ride fixed because it is cool and badass. The simplyfy thing is what anthropologists call backwards sensemaking. Besides, tech overkill is kind of a thing at FM. You cannot throw a beer can at a party without hitting an engineer.
Don't waste good beer by
throwing it at an engineer! OK, I'll agree that the overkill is the norm, but I still see dark clouds if tech breakdowns happen (and happen they will). I have some small experience with gps receivers and I think you will have to do a battery swap at least once if not more during the race--24 hours is a long time for a gps rec. to be on and saving routes.
I was able to once...
that shirpa was PISSED
oh its way overkill, but the
oh its way overkill, but the outward simplicity will be superb:
"here is your black box. point it at that other black box at the check point until it talks to you"
That's less interfering technology than locks on boxes and having to tear numbers off of a roll of tickets and enter each one of them in excel at the end. If everything works right, the hi-tech solution will be easier for riders (no more gashed up hands on sharp metal boxes) and we get pretty maps :)
If a checkpoint fails, the next checkpoint (or the end of the lap person+computer will get all of the data) and if a device fails we can track their time to/from the endpoint manually. Other races have atleast 2 systems of measurement so there should be someone busting out excel at the end anyways.
Gunfunny
Cellphones have GPS's.
I still like the RFID, that crap is idiot proof.
yeah i thought gps in urban
yeah i thought gps in urban canyons was not very precise?
as my boss said, those pesky
as my boss said, those pesky scientists have been working hard: linky
this is exactly what I was thinking:
"Attending to signal attenuation seems relatively straightforward from an SP perspective: extend the coherent and/or noncoherent integration periods to recover the lost signal-to-noise ratio (SNR). But the signal attenuation problem is further exacerbated by unpredictable attenuation profiles, bringing into play the Gold spreading codes' cross-correlation side-lobe characteristics and the much larger expected dynamic range. This manifests itself by further complicating detection of the true code phase peak."
So what you need to do is jiggle the doodad and shaky shaky shaky so that the thimbles alight and your signal is like it comes straight from Jesus.
+1
same thing here...
Its already done. I had this
Its already done.
I had this conversation with EastofAustin(the Austin from Verizon) at Fellini's after a Tuesday night ride awhile back. Actually, at first I was chiding him about how Sprint and maybe Verizon? were both Qualcomm's bitch in the GPS world, but thats alot of inside wireless stuff. (FYI, both Sprint and VZW use CDMA/qualcomm networks)
As Alex points out in the 1st comment, this will help with shortcuts, which I saw alot of during last years race. People were especially not going down to the Capital. Which is what got me started talking to some contacts at Sprint back in Feb.
However it turns out that the cheapest way to do this without any checkpoints is to use a prepay BoostMobile phone (basically its Nextel). They're the only ones with working GPS on the phones, and it costs a big $0.20/day.
Each team needs a phone, Boost or Nextel, either buy one for $60 (includes ~$20airtime?) or bring you own. That becomes your team batton, like the box keys were last year. The phones pings a website every 2-5 secs and displays realtime position, etc.
I'm also tied up right now on other stuff, but we can do a dry run the week after July 4th, people should be back in town then.
re:Urban GPS
Anybody else here ever fly planes? It you're connected to Tech they have a low(er)cost option via the Flying club at CharlieBrown Airport. Anyway the aviation world had a similar problem and solved it with D-GPS. So depending on the route, etc. if this becomes a big issue we could work with CK's Tech guys about a fairly simple solution. Keep in mind that losing a couple of pings is not that big a deal. (just do the math!)
In the Unix world one of the core tenets is the seperation of mechanism and policy. The GPS-boost-nextel option is mere mechanism, and there are plenty of policy issues that need to be addressed by FM, ie. the what-ifs, backups, etc.
eg. I haven't looked at my notes on this in a while, but during the race, in addition to a map, think about what kinda stats you want to display. I'm an F-1 fan and they have tons of stats, its pure overkill. I was thinking two projectors at Estoria, one with the map, one with stats.
re:What about other carriers? Look, dealing with phone companies is massive PITA, these guys are the closest thing in America to the old USSR politboro.
But to summarize from a couple of months ago:
-Sprint and Verizon (both CDMA) require a specific application license and cold hard cash upfront.
TMobile and Cingular (both GSM) are busy on network upgrades and have larger fish to fry.
The only GPS apps not on Nextel, are Disney Mobile's(a sprint MVNO) child locator and VZW's just released chaporone app.
PS. Using a phone also provides a safety issue in case anybody is hurt, etc.
re:Sponsorship
I was following the board's comments on this issue and respect them. I did have some off the record discussion about race sponsorship with others, I'll share them just to inform the group. Due to the way corps work, asking for a very small amount of money/involvement is not good for them. I was discussing a figure of $15,000 total purse. Basically $6000 for 1st, 3000 for second, and $1500 for third, and the rest for other awards.
The upside is obvious, $1000 buys a pretty badass new fixie, a months rent (or two, etc). The downside is that the race might attract riders nationwide, Squids, and some riders might behave as the girl did with Melissa yesterday.
Anyway the option is sorta moot because my contacts were just "rightsized" last week, gotta love those mergers. But perhaps something to chew on, either for this year, next year or never. Its just an option.
One last thing, I attempted to structure sponsorship while minimizing the soul-sucking parts.
- This event is unique in that its a participant event not a spectator deal.
- So the sponsor would have next to zero presense at the event, and especially no bullshit signup table, I hate that crap.
- Legally sponsor would be buying a post event media option.
- DVA, CK and the other folks who have pics/video in the gallery would shot/record the event, same as last year.
- Afterwards the sponsor could execise its option and use some material for a Ad, say print, TV, web, etc.
- FM artists/photogs would get a professional media credit.
Its not perfect, but its basically what happened last year with the option of the event being used in a later media campaign, at the sponsor's choice. It was the least intrusive means I could think of.
Really, one last thing, on the issue of "selling-out", I believe Metalica put it best, "Hell ya, we sellout every show!". Success is nothing to be feared, its a blessing.
Either way, sponsorship is machs nix for me. Just putting it on the table.
Chris, your cell phone
Chris, your cell phone solution sounds super elegant. I like it.
re: sponsorship- I'm not all that concerned about selling out, attracting squids/bad attitudes, or corporate sponsorship per se. What I am worried about is drawing too much attention to an illegal event. Do you have any suggestions for obtaining sponsorship while guaranteeing we won't have to deal with flashing lights and badges at Estoria?
Hey
I worked on that merger. It was cool...
Just kidding. My hands are clean this time.
Dfunk has a point. Sponsorships would be cool, but this may just be on the barely legal side of things. As President Junior amply proves, it don't have to be illegal for the Man to rain on your parade, and blue lights at the party would suck.
Now, there are non-corps that may want to get visibility at such an event, and will not care if it is too squeaky clean... tatoo and skate shops come to mind.
I agree
i think we need to be talking to more low-key, independent shops and companies that make things that we want to win and that they want to sell to other kids like us. I think the tattoo, bike, and skate shops are a good idea but what about other companies: bike parts mfg's, apparel shops, REload, chrome, american apparel, some local screen-printers, shops around l5p, and of course restaurants, bars, and breweries (lets not forget how much we like to drink)
I think our biggest sponsor should be someone about the size of Sweetwater.
GPS FTW.
Ok, so I've been doing some more research on this, and it appears that a solution has already been made (guerciotti made these points too):
mologogo.com
Here's how it works:
1. Get a cheap Nextel or Boost phone with GPS
2. Register on the site
3. Track position in real time via the web or the phones
I think that's it. The website says that an AJAX API will be available soon, so the map (aka Google Maps) will have the capability to integrate into the 24.fm site.
Details on the boost mobile phones are:
i415. $50 (comes with $10 airtime credit. That's enough for the .40 needed for the two days of GPS tracking and another 2.00 needed for two days worth of walkie-talkie)
would each team have to buy one?
0. would each team have to buy one?
1. would they need to buy them before the race?
2. should we (the "race organizers") buy some and then sell them at the sign-up table?
3. can we have a third party salesman selling them at the sign-up booth?
4. how soon before being put into use(activation time?) If bought on race day, will they be ready for the race?
5. still think we need some backup system.
...
The things come in bubble pacs in gas stations. I had an old 'Go' phone a long time ago, and all I had to do to activate it was call a number in the box, whamo, and it worked. I think it will probably be the same for the Nextel phones. I do know that a program has to be loaded on the phone, but all that requires is a 8 dollar USB cable (getting one) and a laptop (ok I know we have one of those).
Also, I think that the teams should foot the bill for the cost of the device, but they get to keep it (who knows, maybe we can get sponsored by Nextel/Boost and get them for free/discount) 50 split four ways isn't much, and 25 for a race isn't bad (15 for the phone x4 and then other 10 for a t-shirt and cookies?)
Also, if one of you team members already has a Boost/Nextel phone (ie. messengers) then the cost of getting the phone is $0. All they have to go is load the program.
pay phones?
If there were payphones near the checkpoints they could serve to verify someone went there. Not as cool as the GPS-phone idea though. Does anyone know if those phones can also serve as cellular modems (like CDMA phones under Verizon's 3G)?